Vatsal Asher on AI and automation and social media

Music We're delighted to have you on the show sir. So, I remember you telling me that even before you started your career Vatsal you were in Bombay from a relatively modest background and you were being paid to put stickers up for some local fellow that wanted to do a bit of local area marketing. That's right. When you think about the future and you look back to the young man Vatsal, how much is your future informed by your past? 100%. Our actions of today will determine our future. Yeah, it's what we're hearing again and again, isn't it? And in that sense, how do you define the future? People naturally gravitate towards the idea that we're talking 50 years ago, but when you as a marketeer think about it, what's your kind of span if you like?

Like Nilema put it, it's short term versus long term. The priorities and goals and as different life stages of individual or a consumer, the awareness to look beyond, look further enhances. And that's when you readjust or realign your horizon for the future. We keep constantly thinking about the future. I could be when I was coming over here, I could be thinking of the lovely breakfast that I could get from Jamie's kitchen. And that's my future for the moment. Being on this hot seat is the future. Getting out from here and going somewhere else is the future that I'm thinking of. So we're constantly thinking of the future, always. Well, it's interesting because just sort of related to this,

we've talked on the show before about philosophies like the inner game of tennis where the more you know tennis, the less you know tennis and the key is to unlearn. Is there a contradictory argument that says that the more experienced you are, the less able you are to forecast the future because the more you're set in your ways? Sometimes, yes, it does work as a blinder because you start believing that history will repeat itself. The only thing, there is one thing certain about the future and that's an absolute certain, that the future is uncertain. You cannot forecast the future ever with 100% accuracy. Well, that's right. And this is Kevin's point that actually you experiment and you fail fast

because the future is kind of, I was about to use a bad word, but bunkum. And how, when you think about these experiments fast, how have you as a marketeer thought about experiment experimenting to see what might work in the future? Where do you stand on that? Well, I'm less from a marketer's perspective, but more from the collective wisdom that I gather from the community. I rewind to about 20 years ago, most large enterprises or FMCG branch would have two or three marquee campaigns in a year and some small experiments. That is how it was. And out of those two or three marquee campaigns, most of their festive sales or annual sales would get covered.

Today, as Mernosh spoke about 40% or 50% digital, Nilema spoke about the usage of tech and inclusivity between the different generations that are there and regions that are there. Kevin spoke, interestingly, about from right from reach to revenue. And what comes in between is the social media part of it or the personalization part of it. How do you get there? Within this framework, it's important to estimate how to get there. Actually, it's not just about like Nilema having multiple experiences. There is something as well about the benefit of being exposed to multiple marketing professionals. I mean, in that sense, have you found that because you're sort of a linchpin in the Indian CMO community.

Have you found just by being that community that gives you a bit of an advantage when you look forward? Yes, absolutely. That's been my love. So when I was with the Reliance Hypermarkets business, it was 52 categories. And I could be a jack of all trades in a manner of speaking, switching from one category to another. So it could be beverages in the summer season and it could be air conditioners in the winters. It could be geezers. And yes, that's the pleasure that I have. And therefore, I am in this profession. But 20 years ago, when there were one or two campaigns, today we've all gotten onto this itch of experimenting. So we watered down our budget into 20 smaller experiments of 5%. Okay, let's try it.

Tap on, tap off for the young digital marketers, which is like suicide. Because most of the times, it's also very difficult for the chief marketing officer or the chief strategy officer to refuse the teams not to let experiment because today's Zen Z comes with a mind of their own. They want to experiment. Some experiments also lead into success. So it's all about the process that is laid out in the company to fail and fail fast, but not continuously keep failing. So as long as the learnings are documented, they are ensured that the failures are not repeated. There is a higher probability of success in the future. Yeah, because this experimentation is quite addictive, isn't it? Absolutely. It's like the fentanyl of marketing if you're not careful.

Let's, as we come into the end of this show, let's talk about a really, really important thing, which is the future of India. Our show has become quite global today, but we're predominantly thinking about the Indian consumer. Are you bullish on the future of India? In all manners, because the biggest reason probably, despite there will be many reasons for failures that people will build it, but the collective aspiration of the Indian youth will compel and propel this country into next level. And somewhere on this episode, we spoke about consumer preferences, beliefs. And I see in a small town, in a tier two, tier three, or even small village today, because with the advent of the cheapest data in our country, that teenager is probably seeing some

of the same television shows on OTT as would Kevin's teenage daughters be seeing. And the aspiration of those teenagers are also global. So they want to get educated. They want to do better. They are aspirational. So I think aspiration and the collective good force of a stable government for the last 10 years might just be the right thing happening for India. Well, it's very interesting listening to you, isn't it? Because this point about the future being increasingly common across the world, but at the same time, demographics being destiny, right? There's very few things we know about the future except demographics is one of them. And when we think about India and thinking about Kevin's three daughters, it's his three daughters multiplied

by 300 million. So it's three young people in England that's behaving the same way here, except there's 700 million of them. And as consumer spends increase, incomes are going to increase. And therefore, there's going to be a collective growth opportunity that's there. I'm seeing a world. We spoke about AI. So I'm seeing a world where about 70 to 80 percent of jobs will become redundant in the next 10 years. I envisage not 2030 if not by a very optimistic assumption. We would have a lot of our everyday jobs being replaced by humanoids or machines. There would be, I would not have a cleaner at home. I already have a robotic mop coming to my house. So time is just a very little time away before I will have a machine which goes and gets my milk also.

So I'm seeing that day as early as 2030. That's all. We're going to have to do a whole other show on that. I'm going to end by making a pact with you that neither of us become robotic mops on this show or replaced by robotic mops. We're going to have to work harder for you and me to stay as we are. Let's try for that. That's the only way for survival because at some point in time when the collective intelligence of machines will get replaced. To stay on the show, the only thing that can happen is I and you need to learn how to control those machines better. Quite right. I'm not, if you're not, I'm not letting this electronic mop take over. Vatslasher. Thank you so much Jasper. Really a pleasure being with you today. An honor to have you on the show.

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