What this BrandMasters episode teaches about brand purpose

Ladies and gentlemen, it's my pleasure to welcome you to Season 2 of Brand Studio Live. I'm Rameet Arora and like always, we're in the newsroom today with a fresh set of brand leaders. This is a show where the country's top CXOs share their insights into the hottest topics in marketing and business. In the process, we not only learn from the best, but we're also inspired by their ideas and their perspective. Season 1 had 15 episodes. It surpassed all our expectations. Millions of views, over 10,000 shares, countless comments and feedback.

Most importantly, 100 plus brand masters. Let's move to today's brand masters in today's episode. A study by the research group Kantar shows that 76% of female consumers and 71% of male customers believe that the way men and women are portrayed by media is completely out of touch. Not all men love sports. Not every woman likes to shop. And it's not just about generalization based on gender. People feel that advertisers or marketeers often resort to age-based generalizations which don't make sense.

As advertisers, filmmakers, brand builders, it's our responsibility to give our brands the best chance to engage our customers. And our responsibility to help mold positive attitude, be good role models and fight age-old mindsets. Let's hear more about this from the people who know best, our brand masters. My first guest is Ashwini Ayar Tiwari. I'd like to welcome a critically acclaimed Indian filmmaker and writer. After working in advertising for several years and being an accomplished award-winning creative director,

Ashwini made her debut in Bollywood by directing the 2016 comedy-drama Neel Bhatte Sannata. She's also won the Filmfare Award for Best Director for her 2017 movie Bareli Ki Barfi. Anybody who's seen Ashwini's movies will tell you that she's not one for stereotypes. Whatever I hear, your new film, your next film is anything but cliches. Tell us about that movie. We'd love to know. But also tell us about your work. Is this the age where discarding cliches is the new normal? I feel that there was a long time even in advertising and then I'll come to cinema.

In advertising it was like you had certain characters and those were the certain characters who used to be represented. So if you have a detergent brand then the woman who is in the detergent brand will be caste type as a certain stereotype. Then as times changed from saree we came into salwar kameezhi if I'm talking about women and then it was not only women who were managing the house but then it was the man and the woman managing the house.

So yes advertising did reflect a lot on what are the insights and what is the consumer behavior at that point of time. But for movies for some strange reason the characters were such that even if they're getting up from the bed they would still have like blow dried hair. Maybe it was because they wanted to take us into a space where it was a dream world but the shift has happened now. So cinemas are not creating characters. Characters are creating cinema.

There's a reason I'm saying that is because in this era we are traveling we are seeing what is happening around. Everything is in a click of a button. So when we are getting so much on us we want to go back to the normal. We want to see normal. We just want to see everything normal now. We are okay to be who we are. We are okay to be Indians in front of the world. We are okay to have dal chawal when everyone else is having pizzas because we are okay. We have accepted the fact as Indians that this is how we are and we are proud of that fact.

So why not in movies and there are flawed characters and we all are flawed wherever we are. There are problems. Guys have problems. Girls have problems. So those flawed characters, those human nature has to come into cinema and we should not feel afraid of portraying them out there. You still haven't told us about your new movie and the stereotypes you're breaking there. So Panga is a sports drama but the core of Breaking Studios types is still there.

It is going to again question a certain norm of society because we as a changing country also are questioning a lot of things. So Panga will be about questioning a norm in society. As a woman who is directing movies, is it a natural strength to be able to empathize with women as characters and therefore be able to think differently? And you know do you think that one of the reasons people stereotype is that they are unable to empathize with the characters they are dealing with?

And therefore you know generalization is an easy way to safely sort of work with characters both in advertising and in movies? Yes. I think our audience are evolved now and we kind of tag our audience saying that they wouldn't understand this. I think we need to be looking at more insights, we need to be looking at more character archetypes. You know you have like the seven emotions in storytelling. We need to be looking more at people and looking at… So research does make a lot of difference.

We do a lot of research but we always do research about brands. We always do research about how a brand is consumed in a person's mind versus how that person is consuming the brand. Who is this person? Why he or she behaves in a certain way? I feel psychology should be a compulsory subject in advertising. And movie and filmmaking. In filmmaking also. Any questions? Hi Ashwini. You know for me personally I think one of the things that you do extremely well is your understanding of culture

and you know the kind of stuff that you produce is clearly you know quite forward in terms of emergent culture and behavior. I want to know what's your cheat code? How do you understand emergent culture and then use that the way you have? Because I think that can help us be better marketers. Our homes are no different than the homes which we portray in cinema. So when I kind of went to our smaller cities which are no more our smaller cities is because they are more advanced than even the cities in Bombay and Delhi.

I went and I was like they are more advanced than us in terms of the way they dress, the way they speak. And why are we underestimating that? That was a starting point. And I also realized that till the time we as makers, till the time we as storytellers whether in advertising, brand building or movies do not create a culture for our own selves. We will be still aping the West. So it is important that we create our own culture. Yeah. On that note. On that note. I think I'm time up. You're time up. Thank you so much Ashkini. Thanks. Lovely.

My next guest is Rana Barua, CEO, Havas Group India. Rana has over 22 years of experience in the media industry and is known for his turnaround management style. He's held leadership positions in Radio City and multiple WPP agencies. Rana, we've grown up as advertising, marketing people, discussing cliches and stereotypes and tried breaking some of those shackles one project at a time. But the new world order completely destroys those shackles. Right. We're talking about a personalized world.

So while we're discussing stereotypes and generalization today, the truth is the internet has basically forced us to abandon our laziness and our stereotypes. So I agree. Absolutely, Ramit. I think stereotype, like many other forms of words which we've discussed, I think was created by marketing and advertising people many years back. You know, we created it, right. So we've all grown up in that time when probably data was relegated to a few files, a few maybe books, some very hard marketing principle books. There wasn't any analysis.

There was nothing much. So we started clubbing things and started saying, you know, the stereotype and this kind of a person and this kind of a housewife. It's all crashed. You know, and the more we see it, it's gone. It's completely gone. And the more we are talking with people and all and more we are realizing that it's actually what we are discovering is something what we are saying as the adaptive world. It's completely personalized. And yes, it's exciting. It's fascinating.

But, you know, the good thing about it is that you can't club what we call as you can't club humans as one, you know, genre and just say that this is the angry person kind of a person and this is the doting husband kind of a commercial. So everybody is different. You know, the young is different. The old is different. The housewife is completely different. And the same person is different through the day. Everybody is different.

And what we are realizing is that, you know, like, you know, if you just see some of the stuff that we are doing or globally is happening, you look at Google, look at Amazon, look at all the voice things that's happening. Look at artificial intelligence. We may not enjoy it. Invasion of privacy. All that is fine. But they are kind of, they know exactly every data. They know exactly what's happening. They know you. They know your habits.

They are kind of rediscovering from a very, very simple marketing world and a classical world of selling brands, selling products. I think it's fabulous for the marketer because, you know, the efficiency world that we are all talking, that, you know, how much is my cost that I'm going to invest. You can measure that. Everything is fine. Yeah, for advertising people, you know, for a lot of us, I think it's getting a bit boring because we are saying everything is suddenly becoming data and the power still remains the idea. But stereotypes is, it's over.

Stereotypes is gone. There's no conversation on that. Let me, let me provoke you in this. I know the internet has forced our hand, but is the 30-second television commercial still full of cliches? It's totally full of cliches. Definitely, definitely in our country it's full of cliches because the way it's, and, you know, I, you know, it's a provocative question. So I'll try to stabilize the answer. I'll keep 30 seconds safe. I'll keep it simple. I don't want to touch that too much. I'm going to experiment here. I'm going to do everything here.

I'm going to provoke here. I'm going to push here. I'm going to try. I'm going to know the consumer better on the other side. I'm going to push everything. Hey, it's back to 30 seconds. Let's keep it simple. Let's go back to stereotype. Let's look at the kitchen the way it should be. Let's look at the husband, wife. There should be one dog or a pet, you know, a pet should be friendly. So we go back to the stereotype. Yes. Interesting. Any questions for Anand?

Do you think there will be new stereotypes that may emerge as newer kinds of people now find new identities and then group around those? Because that's human nature to just look for similarities. Yeah, you're right. Because I think it's basically a very, I wouldn't call it a very strong marketing point of view. But I think the way one is seeing everything emerge and if you look at the social media world, it is definitely a very personalized individual world that's emerging.

And if I go to marry that and I look at the way the buying people are working, if I look at the Amazons and the Flipkarts and the way everybody's kind of merging and trying to marry, it is definitely moving away from the herd to a more individual personality kind of a person. Will there be groups? Of course there will be groups. Will there be group of friends? I think group of friends will be there. But can we follow a cluster to say that a certain 18 to 25 and they all behave in a certain way?

I'm finding that impossible to stand here or sit here and say that that is going to be a way of working definitely in the new future. Because even in an 18 to 25, it's just the diaspora is just too different now. Thank you, Rana. Thank you. That was awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you. I'm delighted to have as my next guest Malini Agrawal, founder and creative director, Miss Malini Entertainment. Malini is one of India's foremost digital influencers, having pioneered Indian lifestyle blogging with her website missmalini.com.

Today, Miss Malini reaches 30 million people in a month and she has over 10 million social media followers, right? An author, an entrepreneur, a great role model and a brand builder. Congrats and welcome to the show. Thank you so much. You know, I've heard your TEDx talk and I have resonated. It's very inspiring. So you've spoken about building a legacy on social media and you've actually provoked us by asking the question, what is your legacy on social media? I'm going to ask you that question.

Can you tell us for brand Malini, what is the legacy that you're building? Can you describe for us the legacy that you want to leave behind? Absolutely. And I think one of the most important things that everyone should know is that I didn't always get it right. When I started off, I started off as a gossip blogger and at that point it was just fun to write blogs and write about entertainment. And I don't know if you must have seen the show Black Mirror.

And I think that the internet gives us this free pass to behave in a way that we normally would never do in real life. And I realized this luckily very early on that I was writing about people and saying things that were hurting people's feelings because I didn't know them. And it was just for this social media currency. And that's when I sort of took a step back and I made a new rule for myself, which is never write anything you can't say to somebody's face. And if you apply that rule to your social media, you'll be amazed at how differently you behave.

And most importantly, I think the legacy I want to leave behind is to remind people that followers are people too. We've kind of changed people into a numerical count. How many likes I have, how many followers I have. We've dehumanized them. So I guess that is the legacy I want to leave behind and to make the internet a better place for women. Let me ask you for various people who are social media influencers, who are marketeers.

Some of who have very large followings or their brands have very large followings and therefore they feel the weight of responsibility. And they often struggle with the grays, the thin lines. You know, the line between being responsible and being smart. The line between being a perfect role model or an image because that's good values on the internet. And being authentic or being true to yourself to the point of sometimes being negative because you're being honest.

There's a difference between being unhappy about something and expressing your emotions about that. And being negative and damaging to other people. There are two different kinds of negativity. And I think that it's absolutely fair to share your emotions. We have a group called Malini's Girl Tribe where people are, you know, honestly very expressive about things that they've been hurt by. Whether it's relationships, abuse, anything. But that form of negativity is just sharing. But then enter trolls.

And, you know, trolls come from a whole different perspective where I think most trolls are just inherently unhappy people. And they use that opportunity to lash out at anyone because there's nothing stopping them from doing that. Same logic. And I'm sure every woman here's inbox is filled with, hi, hello, dear, be my friend. Because there's no filter on the internet here, especially for women. But I think when it comes to brands and influencers, it really depends on what kind of role you want to play.

I think there's a lot of influencers who are doing it as a hobby. Who are just expressing themselves creatively. And I don't think everyone needs to take up the gauntlet of saving the world. I don't think everything you post has to prove that you are doing social service and fixing the world. I mean, I'm in the world of entertainment. I may not have signed up to make the world a better place. I do it in a way by adding, you know, happy value and entertainment and distracting people.

But I think that the key, I think, for even marketers, marketeers, is how much empathy and kindness have you applied to your campaign? And what is the message you're giving out, even if it's not a preachy one? So I think that's really an internal sort of check everyone has to make for themselves. I don't think it's fair for people to point fingers at people and say, hey, your message is fluffy. I don't think it makes a huge impact on people. It doesn't necessarily need to always do that. Some messaging can be fun.

But recognize the difference between being unhappy about something and being mean. Any questions from you guys? Influencing also is kind of an art, right? And you have to follow it very persistently. Even sustaining and influencing positioning in the society can also become a very challenging stereotype. How do you step yourself up on that? So I think what's happening now, and I think everyone's feeling it, there's a social media fatigue that is set in. We're all tired of scrolling through other people's Instagram feeds. As a creator, I feel it too.

I feel this pressure of living this imperfectly perfect life. You know, no makeup, selfie, outfit of the day. It doesn't really represent who I am. And I think that slowly there's going to be a change where people are going to realize that they have to stop pretending to be this perfect version of themselves. Because what is my Instagram feed? It's a curation of the highlights, the best moments of my life. It's the same thing when I used to take pictures with the Kodak reel.

I never took or posted, you know, in the albums the pictures of, you know, bad things that happened. And I think that it's coming from the audience perspective. The audience has a very high BS radar. They can tell if an influencer is not being real. And I think it's going to make a shift. I think that there's a lot of pressure on influencers right now, especially the younger lot. I think I was very lucky because when I started, it wasn't a business. I was doing it for fun.

So I didn't feel this pressure of how many brands work with me or how much money am I making. And that I think is the reason why I was successful. But I feel the struggle of the young influencers. I mean, there have been, you know, cases of influencers killing themselves from the pressure of living perfect lives. So I think it's something we all need to sort of step back and see what's happening. Very, very interesting. And thank you so much. It's been wonderful having you here. Thank you for having me. Thank you.

My next guest is Anshuman Goenka, Marketing Head Bacardi India and Category Head Whiskey for Amir region. He's been an integral part of Bacardi for several years. His expertise lies in category and brand management, P&L management, strategic planning and product innovations. You know, alcohol as a category has undergone a huge makeover. There's one category which had lots and lots of stereotypes and cliches. It was alcohol. Being a product that was associated with parties or, you know, breaking ice, alcohol or AlcoBev has come a very long way.

And the question that I have is, is this consumers that are evolving or culture that's evolving? Or is it just fresh marketing thinking? Is it just a new breed of marketeers? And I think to answer your question, I think it's the consumer that's helping us drive that change. Because I think as marketeers, you know, it's always consumers first, right? So as consumers evolve, you know, we are trying to evolve with the times. And I think the answer really lies in what you said, which is, you know, the whole culture aspect.

I think culture is sort of, you know, gone through a huge shift. You know, we've gone from, you know, just being present at music festivals to, you know, being present at literature, art and food festivals, right? We've gone from, you know, eating after drinking to now, you know, casual dining with drinking. And I think each of these, you know, sort of nuances has sort of really brought about a way of marketing that is really helping break that stereotype.

From a culture point of view, I think it's really important that, you know, we embrace, you know, what this new consumer is looking at. And one of the key things that, you know, we always talk about is really the angle of occasion-led marketing, right? And that, I think, for AlcoBev marketeers is really trying to go beyond and break that code of being stereotypical.

You know, we've, you know, as I said, we've gone from, you know, from really talking about alcohol or seeing a very sort of masculine, you know, sort of typical image of alcohol to now it being far more inclusive. You know, almost to the point of, you know, sort of celebrating, you know, unisex consumption that we see in the area today. And I think all of those sort of cultural movements collectively have really driven this sort of breaking of stereotypes as we see it today. Very interesting. Very interesting.

And does that also lead us to new consumer segments? Because the one consumer segment that alcohol always spoke to was the older man and then there was this young hippie. Is there actually new consumer segments that have emerged as marketable propositions for the AlcoBev industry? Absolutely. I think the two clear ones for me, I think, you know, there is definitely a huge surge of women drinking and rightfully so and gladly so. And I think marketeers need to embrace that philosophy.

And I think if you want to build brands for the long term, I think you've got to stop being masculine in your approach and you've got to really celebrate, you know, unisex consumption. Right. And similarly, you know, the whole rise of the tier two consumer, right? I mean, that's a consumer that, you know, we've not really gone out and spoken to as actively as we should be.

And I think that's also leading us to kind of really embrace and part of what Ashmi spoke about earlier, which is, you know, using aspects like Bollywood and other culture pillars to really embrace and imbibe that into our thinking and our communication. Wonderful. Any questions? So, like when I was in radio, I used to host a show called Bacardi Breezer Vivid Nights, like back in the day. And I feel like your messaging has always been kind of ahead of its time. And, you know, I know you do a lot of stuff with OML as well.

Do you find that there's a lot of limitations online for brands in the alcohol space? Like I know you have a lot of trouble on television. But do you find that same issue? Because I feel like social media is probably the best space to advertise for you. Yeah, no, absolutely. You're right. Social media is by far the number one sort of communication media that we have. The answer is actually yes or no.

So when you look at social media advertising and when you look at platforms like Facebook, for example, if you do want to talk about alcohol, then it's an age-gated platform. So all our pages are 25, which is the highest legal drinking age in the country and above. Of course, when you do work with sort of other platforms, then of course, you know, as long as a majority of that audience is legal drinking age and above, then that's fine. But yeah, you're right.

I mean, of course, social media has clearly become the lead sort of channel for driving our distribution and our messaging. Awesome. On that note, Anshman, thank you so much. It was lovely having you. Thank you so much. Thank you. I'd like to invite my next guest, Amisha Jain, CEO of Zivame. Amisha has over 16 years of experience in technology, consumer and retail. Today, she leads Zivame, which is the fastest growing organization for women's intimate wear. Amisha, it's great to have you here.

And, you know, we're actually talking about a category that's breaking stereotypes left, right and center. And my first question actually is about that. You know, on one hand, there was and probably still is men selling lingerie on the road, which by the way is a category stereotype. And on the other hand, there is this whole very stereotypical sensuous imagery, which some lingerie brands created. And somewhere in the middle, there is a new generation of consumers and brands like Zivame, which have completely changed the conversation.

Where does Zivame sit? What is the conversation it's having with its customers? What is the cliches you're breaking or most interested in breaking? Conversations are quite hushed and, you know, it's quite cliche to say those things nowadays. But, you know, we've had consumer groups even today when I go to consumers and talk to them, let's say in Lucknow. In a women's only forum, a woman, we say, So they are not even comfortable calling it a bra, right? And so that's where the category was, right?

So when Zivame came in about seven years ago, the idea was to solve some of these pain points, right? You know, we evolved the platform to kind of make sure that you are solving for her shopping needs. But more importantly were those conversations and where the content became really important. It was about sort of changing the way a consumer even thought about her lingerie. You know, what's interesting is that 80% of the women don't even know their right size today.

And it's surprising that this particular phenomenon spans from the most educated to the least. We believe in one thing, which is we want to be a brand that allows her to explore her personal style, gives her a personalized space and creates an inclusive environment. And what that means is we want to celebrate who she is. It's not about the right body type, but it's about the right inner wear for her, right intimate wear for her. And so with that in mind, we build a majority of our content and conversations around that.

And we've been kind of making sort of inroads towards in the platform side, kind of improving the shopping experience. And then on the other side, you know, we have a lot of content, which is informational content about the category. You know, simple things like different types of bras. You know, what do you wear with what kind of clothing? What do you wear against or how do you pair it? How do you kind of create a seamless look? So there's a lot more to be created more just to sort of educate people around the category.

Which also brings me to your very recent campaign. And I've got something here about it, the pair it right campaign, which is, you know, in some ways, redefining the conversation around lingerie or inner wear. Tell us a little bit about that campaign. It certainly sounds like a very empowering conversation. I think this campaign is actually unique, extremely unique in the lingerie space from a communication point of view. Because it takes away from, you know, so far what you've seen in the market is glamour shots or on the other hand,

like you were saying, provocative images, right? Or provocative poses. We've kind of broken that mold and gone one step forward. We found that, you know, while women's outerwear wardrobe is evolving, but what we found is that her innerwear is not changing. And the whole idea of this was to kind of A, talk about the fact that with the right innerwear, you can change your outward appearance. We kind of sort of broke the mold and took the conversation in that direction. And here you see two girls, two friends talking about it. It's not about the body type.

It's not about the perfect body type. And you could see it in the play of the lead protagonist that was there. You know, the idea was to allow her to explore different types of bras, different types of outfits so that she can now sort of push the boundaries of what she wears. Wonderful. Questions? Yes. Do you see the change of the entire media world content? And if I may use a lot of boldness, which has walked into the Indian media world, OTT platforms and all, kind of being a catalyst to a category which is now coming out in the open?

Because it was a stereotype. I think the conversations are becoming a lot more bolder in the sense that, you know, we recently posted something which was about that on Father's Day saying, Papa, you say brah basically. So, you know, it's kind of breaking that stereotype of that, you know, you know, So, that, while we're doing that, I actually feel that the conversation and content has changed significantly. I just feel that, you know, we've taken one step into it. There's a lot more to be done. We're just scratching the surface. Thank you so much.

That was an absolutely fascinating session. Thank you so much. I'd like to introduce my next guest, Sharad Gupta, Chief Communications Officer, Corporate Marketing Communications and Brand Strategy and Group Head, Vice President, Tech Innovation and Incubation at Escorts India. Sharad has spent the last 20 years in mainstream marketing communication and brand management. He's been recognized as Corporate Communication Professional of the Year in 2018 and 2019 by the Economic Times. We all have this armchair view of the rural market.

It's a view that's been built over a period of time, an image that has been built. I'm not sure how many people who are watching this show have actually ever gone to these markets. You're actually at the forefront of dealing with these markets, of studying these consumers, for understanding these consumers and actually breaking through some of that stereotype that you possibly find in Delhi or in the city as you actually sell in those markets. Talk us through some of that. When you see a lot of markets, world markets, sport markets,

Indian markets are marching towards rural segment because there's a lot of opportunity and market demand. Let's talk about rural as a word in a rural economy. Today, you're talking about a lakh and thirty thousand crore market economy which is rural. You're talking about almost seven hundred million people in that rural layer. Talk about 343 million Facebook accounts. Have you ever thought, you know, rural online internet usage would be that tremendous, you know, that you've got a phone in hand where you can market yourself. You're talking about

24 trillion gigabyte data flowing up and down in this rural market through data networks. You know, so that definition of rural which was there earlier has emerged out pretty strong now. You have to market a solution than a product to a rural person which eases out his challenges in life and also a solution that eases a problem that he has. So we came out with digital platform to sell tractors. You know, the first company to selling tractor online and you'll be, you'll be startled to know that there are almost a lakh and twenty-three farmers on that app.

You know, buying tractors online. Yes, and there are some hundred tractors which have already been sold online. You know, it's a startling fact. Apart from the product automation on digital trends, we've also come out with an app that talks to the farmers in terms of their consumption influences like weather, soil, best practices in export agriculture, international practices in terms of seed and fertilizers. Service is another aspect. You will again be surprised that our tractor today comes with a SIM card. So this tractor talks to a farmer. You know,

he just need to press the button for seven seconds. He is remotely controlled by my call center who gives him a first aid if the tractor knocks down. It's geotracked through that SIM, through Vodafone. So my nearest outlet service chap in two hours time will reach that same location where the chap is standing. My service app is there for a doorstep service. So he just need to plug on that app and I get to know and I'll go to the doorstep to give him a service on a technology or a failure. So I think V as a brand has understood the consumption trends

which are changing in the rural segment, the opportunity that is lying there and we've started giving digital, technological, experiential and very, you know, something which touches him in terms of a solution not a product. Fascinating and many myths got broken in the last five minutes. Questions? So are you seeing what a lot of us in the advertising media world are we calling it that in many segments is becoming a very adaptive kind of a consumer segmentation? Yes, because what I understand from you is that you're actually listening

to what they're asking for and then going back with the solution versus trying to retrofit what let's say earlier a lot of us used to think was the best way of approaching a consumer is to provide and he should buy versus let me listen and I will provide. You know, there has, there's a lot of data of rural market which has been harvested for quite long. Now, till today when there was no machine learning and artificial intelligence that data was a dump, you know, and this data has a lot of thing to offer. Intelligence, it takes you

to a predictive forecasting of an opportunity market within a rural segment. It talks about different consumption patterns within geotracked areas. So imagine that data which you, me, as a marketer for a brand has, if we just put it in a layer of AI, you get a lot of myths broken and you can target your marketing in that segment. So yes, to answer your point, it has pretty, it has gone pretty adaptive now. You've got data to validate it and you've got platforms like digital, like virtual. You've got a platform which is differential

and experiential marketing. Imagine, you know, there are phablets. Companies are coming with phablets, not escorts, but there's a company who's coming to green sim that only is meant for agricultural, retail, virtual market. Right? There are companies who are talking about virtual mobile retail centers because they cannot do a capex mode, you know, for their business opportunity in rural segment. They're coming out with virtual marketing retail outlets and our virtual dealerships are next in the game. So yeah, it's pretty much adaptive now.

Very fascinating. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. It was really, really, really fascinating. Pleasure. On that note, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining us in the first episode of season two of Brand Studio Life co-hosted by the HT Brand Studio in DMA Asia. A heartfelt thanks to our friends from DMA Asia and Vatsal Ashar who helped power this event. A huge round of applause for our brand masters who took the time out to be with us and share their insights and experiences. Thank you to our radio partner Fever FM

who helps evangelize this concept. We look forward to coming back with another episode soon. Stay tuned. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.