And I noticed that you've chosen to work under a common umbrella, common brand umbrella, which means that what is significantly missing is the distinct brand portfolio, which some may argue is the 101 simple answer to what you pick off the shelf.
Three takeaways worth carrying forward.
- 01
So I think we were daring enough to sunset eight of our existing brands, longstanding brands, very well thought out brands, very well invested brands, to create this one brand.
- 02
Interestingly the report also says that the financial services sector enjoys greater digital influence on these consumers or these customers than any other category.
- 03
A seasoned marketing professional, Anika joined Max Pupa in 2011 and has been instrumental in positioning the brand as a top-notch family health insurer in India.
Connected to the DMAasia operating frame.
Proof
This episode connects brand purpose to credible evidence, leadership archives and field-tested marketing practice.
Access
This episode connects brand purpose to routes into communities, councils, juries and senior conversations.
Ascent
This episode connects brand purpose to learning, recognition and the next generation of marketing leadership.
AdChoices / DAA
This episode connects brand purpose to privacy-first marketing, consumer trust and responsible data use.
Unfinished Business
This episode connects brand purpose to open industry problems that still need senior participation.
Durable lessons from the record.
- Start with the consumer problem, not the channel.
- Treat digital transformation as a behaviour change, not a software purchase.
- Measure effectiveness without losing the brand story.
If brand purpose is now table stakes, what will make the brand genuinely harder to ignore?
Take it into Unfinished Business →READABLE TRANSCRIPT13,630 words
Music Ladies and gentlemen, good evening and welcome to episode 7 of Brand Studio Live. I'm Ramit Arora and I have a brand new set of brand masters with me in the newsroom today. Hosted jointly by HD Brand Studio and DMA Asia, Brand Studio Live brings together the country's top CXOs to talk about the hottest topics in marketing today. In the process, we not only end up learning from the best but also being inspired by them. Without further delay then, let's get started with today's episode. Music
A report drafted by Facebook and the Boston Consulting Group predicts that nearly 150 million people in India will be using online banking services in 2020. Interestingly the report also says that the financial services sector enjoys greater digital influence on these consumers or these customers than any other category. And this is true across all financial products. From savings accounts to credit cards to insurance to mutual funds. All financial products. Roughly 70% of urban internet consumers use at least one digital channel during their purchase
business. And that is telling. Personally, in three decades, I have gone from bankers who my family knew by name to my first banking relationships and now to months of not having met anybody in a bank. So the world is certainly changing. What does this mean for brands? We'll find out today. Are we ready? We'll find out. My first guest is Ajay Kakkar, Chief Marketing Officer at Aditya Builder Capital. Ajay brings with him over three decades of expertise in consulting, in financial services.
At Aditya Builder Capital, he's carved new milestones across domains such as customer data, analytics, customer lifetime value and corporate social responsibility. Under his leadership, Aditya Builder Capital has won several coveted marketing awards. Welcome to HTL. Thanks. Ajay, young people today are far clearer about what they want from life and money. And often they're chasing purpose for both life and money. And technology doesn't intimidate them at all. You know, sometimes that's deceptive because we tend to confuse online customers as different
from offline customers. But actually what's bridging all of that is motivation. Young people looking for answers for solutions. I know we've spoken about it that you've always been a believer in solutions and not products. Is that the answer to this generation and building brands in the internet age? Allow me to pull back and first start with what's the purpose of our industry. What role do we want to play in the life of our customer? And I think we are the most blessed, one of the most blessed categories when I say financial services,
because we are possibly the only category which everyone needs us. So young or old, rich or poor, online or offline, they need our category. So when you are so blessed, what is the role you want to play in their lives? And very often we take ourselves very seriously I believe. And we say that, well he needs a home loan. He needs a car loan. And I possibly don't agree with that. I don't know of a single person in the world who needs a car loan. I don't know of a single person in the world who needs a home loan. He needs a home. He needs a car.
And we don't realize that we are a necessary evil or a means to that end. And we take ourselves very seriously. So the first thing we believe is that why do we earn money? He earns money because he has dreams. And his dreams are important to him. Money is a means to the end. So therefore it's the solutions. When I come to you with a product, it appeals to 5% of the market. What about the 95% who has dreams and doesn't know how to reach there? So that's where I think starting with a customer's need becomes important.
And I also believe our industry is never going to be high tech only or high touch only. I think especially in India it's going to be a high tech and high touch because this product and category cannot be touched, felt or experienced. There are going to be so many questions and the human touch will never go out of fashion. But tell me, I mean human touch won't go out of fashion. But it's also true that remote banking has become a reality. It's also true that the country is divided between people who don't yet understand how
they can leverage the internet to find solutions cheaper and those who've actually discovered it. Is it a median point? Is education or financial education the answer to these problems? So I have a phrase for what we're discussing right now. I call it the 5 and 95, right? 5% are those who are in the market. And when you talk about those people, they know what they want. I mean I know I'm a banking customer. I want banking transaction. I want convenience. I want to do it online. But what about the 95?
The 95 for whom banking may be just one of the means to that dream. And when you look at financial services, a larger category, there's a mutual fund, there's life insurance, there's health insurance, there's blah, there's blah, there's blah. He doesn't understand this. And when he looks at this entire category and his dreams and he says, where do I start? So I'm more concerned about the 95 which also is relevant to the balance 5 than the 5. And I think as an industry, we're so stuck around the 5 that this man knows what he wants.
This man knows how he wants it that we miss the big opportunity called financial services, money and India. It's myopia. It's myopia. I tend to agree. Let's just segue into Aditya Bhirla Capital. And I noticed that you've chosen to work under a common umbrella, common brand umbrella, which means that what is significantly missing is the distinct brand portfolio, which some may argue is the 101 simple answer to what you pick off the shelf. But you've gone the other way. You've actually said we stand for something and everything falls sort of under it.
So come to us and talk to us. What's the thinking there? So we're in a financial service industry, but I believe we are always finance and services somewhere that small. We forget that service is as if not more important. So we wanted to start with the consumer. And we felt that the consumer has money needs and that's because he has dreams. So if you start with his category, which is life, and then how do I make money a reality to, we said let's give him one brand. Let's give him simplicity. Let's give him convenience of one brand.
So I think we were daring enough to sunset eight of our existing brands, longstanding brands, very well thought out brands, very well invested brands, to create this one brand. So you have one name, one brand, one look, one feel, one experience as a consumer. You reach out to Aditya Villa Capital and we'll start with what's your need. We'll tell you what are the best solutions to achieve that. And coincidentally, we have those solutions. We have the full spectrum. We'll open up to some questions. Does anybody here have a question? Yeah, Prasad.
Ajay, the question that I have is currently there is a clear trust deficit that I see that the young millennials have, you know, especially when it comes to selling of financial products. My first question is how do you build that trust in this world of cynicism? And secondly, there was a report which said that millennials are now not willing to buy or have any debt on their own, right? If that is the case, then how do you think you would garner or how would you cater to those millennials
who are not interested really in taking any sort of debt on their head? So basically, then that becomes a challenge for you. Ajay Prasad- I think we should accept that we are a consumer industry. And by that what I mean is, again, let's start with the consumer. So what is the consumer looking out for? And if you are saying that he doesn't want debt, then so be it. What do I give him as an option? How do I make him realize that his dream ain't happening at an early stage of his career without debt?
But if I look again as an industry, imagine if I come and tell you that I have product X. And you tell me I have need Y and the two don't need. What's the use? That's why trust, I think, is built over a period of time. Trust starts when you start speaking the customer's language for him even if it's not in your best interest today. So I think if the financial service industry comes across to you and first starts with, What is your need? As against the way we typically say, I have a product X. Oh, you don't like that? I have a product Y.
But by the way, all those products are restricted to only category X because I only represent category X. Where will the trust come when you don't have all the solutions that he needs? Where will the trust come if you don't start with what is your need? Yeah, Ajay, so I have learnt a lot of you from you in the past also. So just one question. As a category, this is a very boring sector. People don't want to read about financial subject. So how do you make it interesting? Because there is a lack of awareness. It's not interesting. It's not sexy.
So what you should do as a brand that people want to come to you and want to explore more products or solutions? You know, you've always been very kind to me and thank you so much for that. But I think you will find a common strain in all that I say. We take ourselves too seriously. We are financial services industry. So we have to speak like financial services. We have to speak about finance, right? But I am again pulling back and saying we are all about your life and my life. We are a means to that end.
So if I speak about your life or you speak about my life, it's automatically interesting. Because most of us live different lives but have similar dreams. So when I am talking about your life and your dreams, I am sure many people relate to that. So if we talk about life, there is nothing more interesting than life. If we talk about money, there is nothing more boring than that. So as you see the entire market, there is like a lot of growth happening in tier 3, tier 4 and slowly if you look at the opportunity, it is shifting to rural areas.
So how do you think financial, like especially if you look at digital reach, it is still very limited in those markets. So offline means it goes back to traditional banking institutions trying to solve for it. But how do you see more of non-traditional financial institutions being able to serve this large population of rural banking and how do you bring them into this whole financial ecosystem? So I think the world is your oyster they say. So I am saying all of India is the stage for a financial services player.
It is for you to decide where to pick and choose. Where are your strengths, where are your weaknesses? So if my brand is well known all around the country then so be it. If my brand is known better in the metro, so be it. I should choose my wars and I should choose where do I want to fight the battles. So I do not think it is wise for a brand to choose to be in every market, in every medium, for every consumer. It is just going to be difficult unless you happen to be one of the legendary brands that India has.
So I think you should choose your strengths and weaknesses. Every market is a market. And let me give you an example of a mutual fund industry. If you say it is a 5, 6, 7 percent penetration, it is not that because of the 93 not happening in rural India. Even between us in this room or in this city you will find it will be 7, 10, 12. So I think there is so much to do in every market. And then when it comes to the question of medium, like Ramit said, I personally do not believe in medium. Because I am saying it is the same customer, knows your brand.
Today he is at the airport, he wants to access you online. Tomorrow he is walking past your branch, he wants to access you offline. Give him an experience which makes him believe you understand him. Whichever medium he wants to catch you at, whatever time he wants to catch you at, with whatever product he needs. Thank you so much Ajay. That was fantastic. Thank you. Nice. My next guest is Anika Agrawal, Senior VP and Head Marketing, Digital and Direct Sales at Max Pupa Health Insurance.
A seasoned marketing professional, Anika joined Max Pupa in 2011 and has been instrumental in positioning the brand as a top-notch family health insurer in India. She conceptualized Max Pupa Walk for Health, which was one of the most successful health initiatives in the country. Welcome to HD, Anika. Thank you so much. Thank you. Anika, you know, in my experience and as popular adage goes, you know, financial services are always sold, not bought.
But in this world of information, also defined as the world of the internet, where everybody has access to, you know, the last detail. There is all the opportunity in the world to start building brands that are actually bought and not necessarily sold. And just taking from where Ajay left us, you know, for interacting with customers, for letting them tell us what they want. In this new age, and I'm defining it as the age of the internet, but that's a loose definition. Sure.
It is actually the age of information because we have more and more access with or without the internet, thanks to technology. How do you go about building a brand that's actually bought, not sold? So I think information always existed. The question that you have around financial services and why it is sold and not bought is because of the nature of the product. I think all of us treat it as complex. We don't want to get into the information. The information is available. And largely a trust deficit which exists. I don't understand it.
I don't know what you will do with me. I'm buying it now, maybe using it 10 years from now. So there's a large trust deficit which exists. And that is why traditionally the role of the advisor in the area of insurance and so on and so forth. So I think the important thing for brands to be bought and not really sold is actually three things. One is that, you know, you need a financial advisor. I think, you know, in the age of internet and this whole thing of DIY, people say that, you know, let's forget the advisor.
I'm going to talk direct to the consumer. I think there's a large role that an advisor still plays when you're buying a financial product. He gives the trust. He gives the comfort. So how do you really enable your advisor or your distributor in between with information, with your customer experience? I think that's a large part of brand building. That's point number one. If you look at your DIY platforms and, you know, enough education and information, I think it's also about consistency of customer experience.
Because you look at word of mouth today, I think one bad customer today on the social media for you is actually, you know, doing all the different things. You know, doing all the disservice to the brand that you can get. So consistency of service, consistency of experience. I think that's the second thing that can build in the age of internet. And how do you really demonstrate that to the customer? And I think third and a large part essentially is crisis management. So how do you really handle the one bad case that comes through as a business?
And I think all these things together, if the marketer can build them in the brand conversation, that's how financial services brands would be built in my mind. Lovely. What's the role of technology in this relationship between companies and, you know, the distributors, the advisors? So I think when we look at the role of technology today, it's also the role of an enabler. And I think Ajay spoke nicely about the fact that, you know, it continues to be high touch.
So between, you know, technology and making it low touch, it will always be high touch if you need to build trust. I think the idea is that, you know, when the customer comes back to you, there is enough information available with the person who's interacting with the customer. Now, whether it's a distributor or whether it's your customer services team to actually give that high touch to the customer.
So when we talk about technology and specifically now coming to insurance, for example, and, you know, we sell health insurance today, there's a large ecosystem involved, right? There's a seller or an advisor there. And finally, the service or the, you know, promise that you're giving to the customer, you're not actually servicing him. It's the hospital, which is the end point. So technology actually gives us three things. Technology gives us, you know, the ability to create an ecosystem today.
So how do you really connect the dots between your advisor, between the hospital who's actually really servicing the customer and create an ecosystem which talks to each other? How do you really use that ecosystem then to have a conversation with your customer and actually do personalised engagement or personalised products for him? And the third, of course, is in the area of customer service. So when I touch you, when I feel you, do I get a consistent experience?
So I think those three things actually are building the financial services brand in the age of internet. When you look at technologies today, I mean, there are lots, right? So you talk about AI use cases. You can have really fancy use cases of AI today. But the fact of the matter is AI is all about learning from your own data. I mean, we talk about data, for example, and say that in the age of internet, how do you really use data as marketers? I think there's enough and more data available.
A lot of us start having this conversation around, do I have enough data? How do I collect more from the customer? Because I have the ability to go back to him. I think the first point that we need to realise as marketers is there's enough and more data with the brand. What are you really doing with it? The most frustrating customer experience today is, you know, when I call a credit card company today and, you know, they ask me the same question over and over and over again. I mean, that's doing disservice to your brand, right?
So I think just getting all the data together and actually using that to create use cases for whether it's personalised experiences, whether it's personalised products for the customer today or whether it's about customer engagement. I think that's the first step in the large ecosystem that we have today in financial services. Wonderful. Any questions? Yes, please. My question is that, you know, youngsters like me these days in terms of health insurance,
we usually wait for a medical emergency to happen and then, you know, we would go ahead and, you know, purchase a health insurance. So how are you creating a need for people to really purchase it before anything happens as a precautionary, you know, medium for them? So, you know, the traditional Indian mindset has always been of investment and we spoke about the fact that millennials don't want to take loans, for example, and so on. The fact of the matter is that insurance is a protection product, right?
And if I ask you as a young person, will you ever buy health insurance in your life? The answer will always be yes. I mean, I've rarely found a person who says he does not need health insurance. Having said that, the category penetration is 20%. Because the large population of millennials, you know, almost 400 million of them today are actually saying, of course, I'll buy it. But I don't want to buy it today. Maybe let me buy it two years from now. Let me buy that car right now.
You know, let me buy and invest in certain other things which are up there on my priority list. I think we're doing two or three things there. The first, of course, is that you start to engage with them early enough. So, you know, your cycle cannot be, I'm talking to you now, I want you to convert in the next three months. I think it's important as marketers to realize that with millennials, you need to nurture them. You need to provide them the right information and continuously provide it and educate them for them to convert.
So, I think that one thing that we have learned is that 12 months or maybe 18 months is the conversation cycle that you will have with a millennial before he converts. So, I think that's the first important thing. The second, of course, is, you know, this whole thing of insurance is only needed when I'm going to have a heart attack, which I'm not going to have before the age of 40. That's also changing, by the way. But, you know, create products that are more than that. So, you know, how does insurance play a role in your life?
And, you know, what's your need really today? So, you know, can I help you stay healthy, for example? Can I help you stay out of hospital? That's a conversation that a millennial is interested in today. So, you know, those are the product evolutions and the platform evolutions that are coming through with technology. That's something we are looking at as well. So, those are the new things that you need to do. But I think with the millennials, you need to talk to them at their own pace and, you know, in their own language.
And expecting them to behave and convert like, you know, traditionally we've seen the funnels operate. That's changing. So, I think that's what we'll do. And that's what we keep on doing as a brand today. I'm going to take a segue on language and ask you this question. We've done an episode on languages and vernacular and adoption of languages on the internet. And a lot of the research that got quoted in that episode said that 80-90% of people across categories prefer transacting in a language of their choice.
Are financial services today available in language of choice? Are you available in language of choice? So, if you look at the journey, you know, I think there's a fair distance to cover there. Because today what's happening in financial services is, you know, there are large sets of challenges that you're facing today. You know, are there enough people buying? The people who are buying you today, are they spending enough with you? How do you really get more out of the same customer that you have today?
I think those are the challenges that financial services brands today are struggling with. To get scale and to get large scale and, you know, the language of choice and conversation. I think that's a distance we need to cover. Just purely from a language point of view. But I think language is more about Hindi, English, Marathi, Gujarati. I think language is also about talking to me about my need and my voice. And I think that's something that's dramatically changing now. Sure. Fantastic. Thank you, Anika. Thank you so much. That was really nice.
Thank you. My next guest is Shaji Vargis, Executive Director and Business Head of PNB Housing Finance Limited. Shaji has over 25 years of experience in areas such as retail assets, branch banking and wealth management. Under his leadership, PNB Housing positioned itself as the fifth largest housing finance company in the country. Besides PNB Housing, Shaji has worked with ICICI Bank, ABN AMRO and Indusin. It's a pleasure to have you here. Thank you for having me on here. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I think all should look at it. Yeah. So, there's so much data. I mean, nobody has more data about me than the brands from who I've acquired a financial
service product, especially if I've done it on the internet. Right. And not only do they know about me and have a great sense of what my needs are or what I'm looking for, but my guess is they also know a lot more about my life because I've actually transacted with them and they've tracked me a little bit. Where does all that data go? How do you use that data? Yeah. I think, you know, I think Ajay also touched base that point, you know, there is a preconception that this is the way customer is thinking about, you know, even in the, during that,
you know, customer acquisition process, you know, that's the time the customer is shopping around. Now, most of the marketeers only try to push their product and product features in the decision making process and shopping around spree. There are a lot of information customer is looking at. For example, in our industry, customer actually is thinking much beyond rate of interest and maybe, you know, a processing fee. So, it's not just about using data. It's not just about the marketeers. It's not just about the marketeers.
It's not just about the marketeers. It's not just about the marketeers. It's about the marketeers. It's about the marketeers. It's about the marketeers. It's about the marketeers. It's about the marketeers. It's about the marketeers. It's about the marketeers. It's about the marketeers. It's about the marketeers. And we also see, you know, you know, same company is being sending multiple emails from the same day. The morning email is on credit card. The afternoon is on a personal loan for a salary.
By late afternoon, there is another mail for a business loan. And it's very evident that, you know, I'm not a businessman. Some bullet will hit. Correct. There's a lot of data available. In the process again, what I talked before, are we not pitching the brand little low? Okay. And I think that's where the opportunity is. You know, there's one famous saying, right? You know, customers pay for the brand, but they will keep negotiating for the commodity. The opportunity is between these two to negotiate.
You know, build a better brand, the brand perception one side, and of course, put a price to it as well. It's also very important in this space. You know, the digital initiative, it needs an upfront investment. And somewhere the complete picture of the business, which will give a piano perspective. Now, what will otherwise happen is, many of times, not only the new initiatives been added, you know, embrace technology, embrace digital is, of course, is now thing, in thing. But are we willing to let go the past processes?
Are we willing to let go one of the old mediums in which we used to communicate? For example, at PNB Housing, right from 2011, while we adopted, we kind of decided this is the way to go. This is the future for us, especially with the TG. Four years, we did not do a single TV commercial, nor even a single billboard. We were so convinced. This is the TG, age between 35 to 45. This is the income group. This is the pin code. Only invest in this. And mark my word, that worked fantastically for us to convey that ease and convenience to the consumers.
And you know today, you know, we are the fastest growing housing finance company for the last seven years. From a such 2,000 crore asset book, we have 75,000 crore of asset. Okay? And of course, the lowest NP in the trade as well. And digital really played that clarity. This is where you will have to focus. This is something you should have to let go. Now what happens is, you know, many marketers look at, is an acquisition strategy. They don't look at the internal processes. Just go and sit on top of the existing processes. It's a cost.
So one day, you know, there has to be a value add or, you know, advantage shareholder as well. That is not looked at. In the process, there's a question always comes up. What is it, Danny? So, you know, that's fantastic because clear focus on who you want to target, putting convenience on a premium, passing on efficiency. Good business is good business, right? And brands, good brands are good business. That's lovely. But tell me the PNB name itself. You have this great heritage of trust and this community of loyal families who banked with PNB forever.
How important is that name to the whole equity of the housing finance company? You well said, you know. It's in fact, it's a mixed bag. One that is, there's always an advantage of being a trusted brand. On the other side, the target group being the youngsters and the, you know, the, you know, the, young consumers who are on a digital platform. It's also very important that service perceptions being created in these consumers' mind.
That also needs a lot of investment to reposition the brand that, you know, we are not here open the brand and waiting for you to walk into our brand. We, in fact, deliver the product, not just at the doorstep, but only, you know, in a fingertip. That also was a, you know, I don't want to say tough journey, but that was well conceived. We rather inherited the trust, but we worked on the consumer perception and the delivery into the end consumer. There, digital played a fantastic role. We could really reach out to that well-defined TG.
So, we never opted some of the mediums which has been targeted, you know, 1.2 billion consumers just to acquire 25,000 customers in a month. We said that is not the right investment to be done. So, it's a, you know, combination of that, you continue to strengthen on that credibility. On the other side, you… Build a modern brand. Absolutely. We can take a question if there is one. We see this across most of the financial services industry that the focus is on acquiring a customer
and acquiring more customers rather than also looking at are we retaining them. So, when it comes to housing finance, are you seeing the same problem with a balance transfer facility now being available and interest rates always moving? Yeah. The acquisition is important, but retention is equally if not more important? Absolutely. In this business, for a home loan customer, even to break even, it takes around 18 months. So, you actually start making money only after 18 months. So, you have made an afferent investment.
So, it's so important that you hold this customer ahead. Okay? So, retention is much more important than acquiring because first 18 months, you are not made any money. Now, having said, many look at the world customer retention or a balance transfer as a problem or the menace of the industry. The fact is not that. It is the job of the lender to retain the consumer. There is no meaning we start blaming on competition activity by telling they are offering at a discounted rate or a processing fee waiver and so on and so forth so that my customer is going.
It is not. Customer is going because you are not able to hold your customer together. So, it's so important that this has been well embraced into the system. That is our job to retain our customers and not the job of others, not to do any promotional activity to targeting your customer. I think that's so important. Yes, technology is well available for this. You can actually have subscription of the credit bureaus. The moment your consumer is swiping your, you know, their KVC somewhere, you get an alert. Okay?
But that alert itself does not really hold you together. That's where, again, what I talked before. The focus not only on acquisition is not going to sell you through for product which has a, which is on book for 30 years. It's so important that you really hook him with your mobile app, predictive services are being given upfront and not later. Okay? And most of the salary consumers, for example, beginning of financial year needs to submit, you know, the personal IT certificate. Why they call us? Can't we not queue it up in advance?
Same way, we need a final IT at the end. Yeah? I think those really work. Thank you, Sharjee. That was fantastic. Thank you so much. Thank you. My next guest is Yashish Dhaia, co-founder and CEO of PolicyBazaar.com Group. With a strong belief that people in India need more financial cover, Yashish has built PolicyBazaar.com into a 2,000 crore plus, rubies 2,000 crore plus insurance marketplace within a short span of 10 years.
Under his leadership, the company started PaisaBazaar.com, an online financial marketplace of investment and lending products in 2014. You know, you have a very difficult task. On one hand, your core is information and choice. On the other hand, you're actually curating and making sure people see what they need or what they want and they're not inundated with too much information or too much choice. So, in some ways, you're also personalizing choices.
That is a tight rope, especially because people need to trust you to do that or need to believe that you're doing the right thing for them. And that's a lot of responsibility as well in the category. Talk to us a little bit about how you walk that balance. I think it's indeed a tough task. Like if I take a very specific example, let me take life insurance. There will always be, you know, we're dealing with let's say 25 companies, right?
And some companies will have products which are not so great for the consumer, but they're willing to pay us a lot more. There may be a company willing to pay us a lot, but, you know, the product is not good for the consumer. And there is, of course, a reason how that product can be justified to the consumer because there are 10 different parameters. You can just decide that I will actually rank products on this parameter. You could rank it on the basis of the more highest selling product, right? And you'll suddenly get the worst products out there.
So, somewhere it needs a heart and a head combination where you sacrifice your own margins to some extent because you believe that longer term that's going to benefit you. Consumers will garner more trust. And hand on heart, that's the rule we follow. We basically say, okay, is this a product that if I was a customer, I may be willing to buy? I may be in a different place. Maybe if I was 20 years old, maybe if I was 50 years old, maybe if I had 5 crores income, maybe if I had 3 lakh rupees income. Can I see myself actually buying this product?
If it isn't, we would just take it off the platform. And trust me, all the insurance companies we deal with are multi-billion dollar organizations. It's not easy to stand up to them. When you take off somebody's product, they're going to be very, very unhappy. But we've just been doing that over the last 11 years and somewhere I believe just doing that honestly has garnered us the consumer trust in an otherwise very difficult industry. Is it a love-hate relationship with financial service brands? It shouldn't be, right? Because it was in the beginning.
Because in the beginning, before we started, and again I talk about the life insurance industry, not so much about the health and motor where we haven't made a huge impact in the sense we sell a lot of it, but we sell pretty much the products that exist. But in the life insurance industry, 95% of the products we sell did not exist in 2008 when we started. And did not exist because the products that existed were not good for the consumer.
And that's a very harsh statement to make about an entire industry which is, you know, one of the largest we have in this country. But that was the reality. And so there was of course an early love-hate relationship. But you know what we explained, with 75% of your customers leaving you within the first five years, you will never be able to build a profitable business. So it's not about going on acquiring customers. And slowly companies have got that. That you know you can't just go on acquiring customers by paying distributors very high commissions.
And you know, having these consumers who one day discover I did not really want this product, and then leave you, you actually have to sell products which will stay with the consumer for a long period. So the moment you look at lapsation, etc., we would be in a very different bracket from the rest of the industry. Right? So 95% continuity rates. But I think where it really boils down is products like term insurance, pure term insurance did not exist. Right? Today that's the most researched product online in the insurance category.
By the way, more researched than car insurance. Right? So I think things have come a long way. And it's been a tough, when we started there was nobody offering that product. Then one company started in 2009 onwards onwards. Today pretty much every company offers the product at least. Right? And I think innovation has gone on happening in that product. Again if you look at low cost ULIP. Sorry I'm getting into specifics of products. But if you look at the low cost ULIP. They are a company that pay us 5% for selling that product.
Now at 5% nobody in the insurance industry is selling anything. Whatever anybody wants to claim. Nobody in the insurance industry is selling anything at 5%. But we do sell investment products at 5%. 5% total in all. Lifetime. That's it. Right? So I think, but the reason we do that is because that builds volume. That 2000 crore number is wrong. We have more than 3000 crores this year. So, but that's fine. I think the important part is, do we believe we are true to the consumer in our own heart? We can never be perfect. But do we believe we are true?
And I think some stage, at some level we have been. I have another question but we'll open up for questions. Rajiv has one. I love how you articulate your brand especially in things like your ad strategy. Right? So when you think about insurance as a category, I remember brand used to be about showing happy faces and you know comfort and all this stuff. You've gone a little bit more humorous, a little bit more edgy with your brand articulation in terms of your ad strategy. Can you tell me about how you sort of approached it?
So our brand strategy basically has been built by the consumers. So in the very beginning in 2009-10 when we started, when I spoke to consumers they used to say, Yaar aap loog ullu banateo. So the campaign was ullu mat banno. Because it has to connect with the consumer, right? So it was ullu mat banno. You know, find out a little more, get yourself a bit educated and then take your decisions. Now what I figured is people don't want to buy health insurance or life insurance.
As Anika was pointing out, only 20% penetration on the health insurance side and life insurance, 2-3% of people have life insurance policies. And I've unfortunately or fortunately, whatever you want to call it, been through experiences where family members, friends have been lost on big health costs as well as death of primary income earners etc. And somewhere I started seeing those situations and said, who came out to help them? I know at some level, the help I provided was also very minimal, very basic.
The real help could only have come from insurance. I've seen some school teachers expiring and you know some kids putting some money together. It's not right. And I think somewhere people don't understand it. A person who got a 3 lakh rupee income, he needs a 30 lakh rupee insurance cover. That costs him 300 rupees a month. It's not a big amount, he can afford it. But he doesn't afford it. Or he's lewd into investing in these investment income, insurance products which don't have any insurance at all.
And similarly on health insurance, it doesn't cost so much if you want the basic cover. And you know, if you are slightly smart about it, you can really sharpen that. So I don't think it's a matter of cost. When you talk about, I think educating people on that, that this is not a matter of cost, this is a matter of priority. And your risk really lies in these products. And I would say they were the number one products to be. I think somewhere, we have been very direct in saying that. So basically our ads basically say, the wife is dead.
And he says, the wife is saying, are you mad? How could you die without having bought insurance? Like you know, come back to life. Right? Because it's right, you know, how are the kids going to be taken care of? You know, they have to go to school. I look at, you know, if I disappeared, how would my kids schooling be paid for? How would their college be paid for? You know, so I think, yeah, it's a serious enough subject, but we can't be boring about it. So we try to do it with a bit of fun. But we are very direct, extremely direct. Excellent insight.
Thank you so much. We can take one last question because we are almost out of time. Yes, in this neutral sides and the aggregator space, we normally see the pitch is all around pricing, at least in the past. Yes. And even the ranking is done only on that. Yes. Do you see this platform now moving directionally, also looking at other vectors, like you said, a consumer may be looking at today, something beyond a pricing for a brand and, you know, and so that for the consumer. Yeah.
So if you do notice, health insurance and life insurance are no longer ranked on price. Only motor insurance is. Because in motor insurance, it's an annual product and people just are coming to check the price. But health insurance is no longer ranked that way. And it's ranked on what people are, what brands people are comfortable with, you know, what the service levels are, what the issuance rates are, what the claims experience is, lots of factors going into it.
So if you have a look, you'd pretty much find the cheapest product actually being at the bottom of the list. Because, you know, it's, you won't buy a life insurance product just because it's 200 rupees cheaper. Right. But there's a 30 year promise that you're buying. You know, is that company going to be around 30 years from now? I think there are lots of questions that go into that thought process. Thank you so much. That was wonderful. Thanks a lot. Thank you. My next guest is Vishwajit Parashar, Senior VP and Group Marketing Head, Bajaj Capital.
Vishwajit is a performance driven marketer with 17 years in developing highly successful marketing and advertising campaigns. He's passionate about spreading financial awareness and actively participates in personal finance related conferences and talk shows. Vishwajit, 50 year old brand, 50, maybe more. So much trust, so much heritage and a completely new modern world with young customers who may not have dealt with this brand 20 years ago, 30 years ago, 50 years ago. The landscape's changed.
Talk to us a little bit about building this brand in this new industry. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I think since starting we were an evolutionary brand. So we brought the concept of company fixed deposits in India for the first time. We garnered money for East India Hotels, what is now called as Obera Hotels. So that was the beginning of the brand. Then when we started, the objective was to give a professional advice on where, when and how to invest.
So I think where the common people, that was a problem that category was facing. There was a lack of financial awareness. People were literally, I would say financially illiterate. That's what I can prove reality was. People didn't know what product to buy. There are 1400 mutual fund schemes to buy. How to choose. And look at the jargons. Look at the complexity of the products. So our promise was to make the life of a consumer simplified. So you know how to help him choose the financial product or insurance or, you know, a medi-claim.
So that is where we started with. And I think the trust has been built overnight. So there were fly-by-night operators. This category is one challenge that is facing is, there is a lot of mistrust. So there were plantation companies. There were cheat funds. And still a lot of fly-by-night operators are there. So this 55 decade old brand evokes a lot of trust in the consumer's mind. So you know, there is, this company is going to stay with me for my lifetime goals, whatever I'm planning to do.
And you know, as a brand, you know, when the digital things are changing. So we have been evolving. So the industry was unorganized. So we brought the concept of a certified financial planning mark in India, where we made our wealth managers trained on financial products so that it's not an ad hoc advice which we give. So there's a complete process which we follow, you know, understanding the needs of a client, understanding the risk profile, which normally most of the clients don't understand.
Everybody says, I am, you know, I want high returns, but I don't want to take any risk. You know, but it's very simple. High risk, high return. That's the game is all about. So we educate them. I think the main thing what we do for the customer is that we do a lot of education for them. So whether it was in the past where we used to do 3000, you know, investor education programs, every branch on ground, we are a brick and mortar model initially. So 200 offices on ground, we used to do a lot of education camps and more the education, more the business.
That was the principle we used to follow initially. And even today also digitally. So we do a lot of, you know, videos. Now it is more of a micro marketing what we do, you know, micro videos, micro products, and, you know, ultimately the macro profits. That's what we do. But one thing that has not changed over time is the philosophy of the brand. Like treat your client's money like your retired father's money who won't have a chance to earn it again. So the philosophy remains same. We treat digital as just another medium. Yes, the life is changing.
The customer is going on mobile, doing transactions on mobile. It's no more, you know, you have to wait for five days to open an account. So, but ultimately, is it trusting you or not? Are you really making an impact in his life or not? Are you helping him simplify the complexities of financial product? I think that is what the promise is all about. So we've talked a lot about, and you in particular just talked a lot about sort of consumer needs, consumer context, and then there's this dichotomy.
If you talk about, okay, people don't really want to deal with the complexities of financial products, right? How do you bridge the gap in terms of articulating what consumers really want, but in a way that they can actually identify with it and sort of absorb it into the messaging? Yeah, very good question. I think this is something what we really work for. Since the brand promises to simplify his life, you know, as you know, Ajay was also mentioning, it's the same customer who wants to buy car insurance, who wants to buy MediClaim,
and also wants to invest for his future goals. So I think we normally try to, you know, there are norms by the regulator also know your customer, but those are the very basics ones. So what we do, we take a step ahead and you know, the process is such that for a first three meetings, we'll only try to understand the client, his risk profile, the way he has been handling his finances in the past, how he handles his budget, what are his behavior when it comes to spending.
So once you know the persona of the client, then probably you can have a simplified product for him to offer to choose. Obviously, it is his call what product he buys, but the objective is that the job of an advisor is to help him choose from the 1400 scheme. So there is a research department which you know, so you don't have to offer all the products. So if you even simplify three products to him, I think he has the understanding, he is reading on the, you know, on the mobile, on internet, what kind of a product he is buying.
So he is quite savvy now, he is quite informed. But our job is to make his life simple, how to choose, because still people don't understand equity linked, saving scheme, you know, what is it all about. So you have to make him understand this is what your risk profile and I think this scheme suits well for your financial goals. Got it. So you are basically going consumer first rather than product first and taking out all the jargon from it as well.
Absolutely. So the first thing, you know, we do it in our organization is even the CEO meets top 100 clients in a year. So it's not that, you know, you are making strategy in the office and on the ground people don't know. So whether it is digitally or on ground, everybody in the organization has to meet clients. What is what we call as a voice of customer, there is a customer council within the organization where you understand how is evolving, what are the typical behaviors that is changing towards money management.
So we we try to understand as much as possible. And there is something called what we methodology we follow is net promoter score. So it is the only organization I would say where the wealth manager is not illuminated on the revenue he is getting for the organization. But what is the customer experience is delivering to the client. If a client is unhappy, gone, his incentives are gone, his bonuses are gone. And we as a brand, we understand that there can be mistakes. So you have to take it responsibly. It's fine if you have done something wrong.
But how well are you handling that? That is also very important. Thank you so much Vishwaji. That was wonderful. My next guest is Balaji Vishwanath, Vice President Digital Acquisition at American Express. Balaji has over 17 years of experience in the financial service sector. He has a proven track record of delivering transformational strategies and results in areas including digital marketing, mobile payments, payment product management and customer acquisition, also loyalty marketing. Welcome to HTV. Thank you for having me here.
Now, you know, data is a new fuel. And it's a data economy. But data is also a double-edged sword. And some of us have come to fear the data economy. But young people are also rewarding brands with data about themselves and sometimes voluntarily. And in return, they expect some level of personalization, some level of curation. What do you do with the data? I mean, is data useful to you? Do you actually get to personalize your products? Do people complain? They are being spammed. How do you take care of it? Do you have any out of the ground?
Talk to us a little bit about Amex and data and brand building. So, I think data in today's age and the whole discussion about privacy of data and the concept of where do you draw a line between privacy and personalization. I think that the whole space is evolving. I think privacy and personalization can coexist provided you are able to take consent from the customers and also show them the value that they can derive after they expose the data to you. When I say data, it could be preferences. What do you like? Where do you shop?
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What kind of information? What kind of information? So, as a pedigreed and a very top of the pops brand, how do you manage today's time when there's temptation to also reach out to millennials who don't have so much money to spend or the culture or the industry which is lifetime free card? How do you straddle these two ends? Premier, premium, pedigreed and the demands of today? Premier, premium, premium, premium, premium, premium, premium, premium, premium, premium, premium, premium, premium, premium, premium, premium, premium, premium, premium, premium,
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