What this BrandMasters episode teaches about brand purpose

Ladies and gentlemen, hello and welcome to the 15th episode of Brand Studio Live. I'm Ramit Arora and I have yet another set of Brand Masters with me in the newsroom today. This show brings together the country's top CXOs and brand leaders to talk about the hottest topics in marketing. In that process, we not only end up learning from the best, but also being inspired by them, by their ideas and their perspective. Without further delay then, let's get started with today's episode.

It would be the understatement of the year to say that shopping as an experience has been completely disrupted by technology and the internet. The millennial shopper is spoiled for choice, promiscuous, yet more informed. She's time-staffed and convenience-seeking. She's able to navigate fairly complicated shopping experiences and needs on a small screen. Irrespective of brand, channel or platform, the seller has responded with lots of sophistication.

With the personalization, with easier, richer, more complete shopping experiences and a willingness to fight for a share of mind, heart, wallet and space on the mobile screen. Today, we are looking to decode shopping. Today, in this episode, we are looking to decode shopping in the new India. And the first brand master, my first guest, Uma Talreja. Uma is a customer care associate and chief marketing and customer officer at Shoppers Top Limited. Uma has over 20 years of work in retail and fashion.

She's held leadership positions with companies like Raymond, Burger King, Tata Trent and Aditya Birla. Uma, I know Shoppers Top is possibly the earliest and oldest case study that I know, successful case study of loyalty and rewards in this country. But my question to you is, is there something called loyalty that still exists with the internet and everything else that's happening? What does your experience tell you and what does the data tell you at Shoppers Top? Does loyalty still thrive? It's a very interesting question, Ramit, of course.

And all of us have run a lot of programs which are really aimed at what we call share of wallet. Right, but is share of wallet really loyalty? I think is a question that we should ask ourselves. And I think Shoppers Top have answered this question, you know, way back in 1991 when they started. Saying that what is it that they really want to do for the consumer? And what is it that they want to create as an experience, as in desire? Right? What is it that they want to do for Indians that shop?

So really what started as a new way of shopping, you know, finally led to us collecting a bowl full of visiting cards. Right? Saying that these are the people who came and built our brand from the start. So I think that the philosophy that the brand is built by the consumer. Right? And what do you do therefore to build that relationship with the consumer was always at the heart of everything that Shoppers Top did, you know, in terms of strategy, in terms of execution in the store, the brands they brought.

And therefore what started as a bowl of visiting cards today is contributing to 76% of the revenue that we get at Shoppers Top, which is through the program that we call First Citizen. But we never looked at it as a rewards program and we still don't look at it as a rewards program. So a lot of our strategies were actually built around understanding the consumer, using the data, then creating personal experiences.

Today personalization has become more of campaign methodology, but I think what we used it in the past and have always built on is the relationship quotient that we want to actually, you know, create. Young fashion today is bought by middle-aged consumers. How do you actually identify the patterns? It's extremely confusing for a marketer or a merchandiser to say that, you know, okay, fine, this is being bought by this particular type of customer that doesn't exist anymore.

So it is, it also the social context of these consumers has completely changed. Right? So let's take for example, Karwa Chaut. So a lot of our brands are actually occasion where brands are catering to, you know, Indian festivals. 10 years ago, we saw that during Karwa Chaut, you have had like a rising trend where women did not want to actually take part in it because they thought it was a forced tradition. Right? Today, actually, it's one of the biggest, you know, trends that we have where even partners are taking part in Karwa Chaut.

So the shopping actually goes up and it almost creates a similar peak like Diwali. Right? So tracking all of this, you know, patterns in terms of what's happening in the environment, how consumers are thinking is become very key to nurturing that relationship with consumers. So I think loyalty is separate from really looking at rewards as a means and mechanics. Rewards still sits in the promotion space.

And yes, it does create a delight factor. But loyalty is a set of actions that you actually create to serve needs that you are able to actually spot, you know, that consumers may not even know yet. And experiences. And experiences. Right? We'll take one question. Sure. If there's a question. Umar, do you try and make the offline and online experience as uniform as possible or it could be entirely different? It's not actually entirely different for sure. But I can't say that it is exactly the same because we have to adapt to the channel.

But what we've done is I think we've done two, three things. One is that we have definitely created a single view of our inventory so that we are able to offer all of what we have across India available in a single place. So we get about 15% response from our online to offline. And we were the first ones to use Google store visits and the store visit measurement and our data is synced with Google to measure for that.

In terms of the experience, I think a lot that we have to offer in the store is what we have mirrored through channels, but then we cannot really replicate certain experiences. So for example, we have a personal shopper service, which is been running for the last one and a half year. In a way, content plays a role online, but I think that's the touch experience, which is very unique about us, which we really create. Wonderful. Thank you so much. Thank you. It was lovely. Thank you.

My next guest is an angel investor, a veteran marketer, and in recent years, a marketing and business strategist. I'm pleased to welcome Lloyd Mathias. Lloyd's worked with brands like HP, Motorola and PepsiCo and brings a treasure grove of experiences to today's episode. So, the brick and mortar or the physical world, the internet, gadgets, we sometimes tend to see them as isolated pieces or channels of business.

But the truth is, from a consumer's point of view, they're all part of one journey, sometimes, you know, in one shopping experience, sometimes in a day, sometimes over a period of days. So, the consumer is not looking at these as channels of engagement. He's looking at it as bits and pieces of the same experience. I know we've had a conversation about this and you believe that all of this needs to come together.

So, help us put this puzzle together, this ecosystem of technology, internet, physical spaces, and what does a real shopping experience look like from a brand's point of view? Thanks for having me, Ramin. So, I think the kind of key challenge right now is that, you know, a lot of retailers and lots of brand marketeers, we look at it in two different silos. We see it as the world of offline and online. You know, your shopping experience is one, it's not really about online and offline.

And the fact that with the penetration of the internet the way it is today with, you know, smartphones being, you know, deregare with most consumers, most people are actually always making, you know, seamless choices. Right? So, you could walk into a store, but you could be doing your price comparisons, you could find the whole experience. I think what we are yet to come to terms with, and a lot of marketeers and retailers need to, is to really understand that the consumer is in that sense evolving.

And when he goes into an offline environment, he's not really offline. You know, he pretty much has all these tools of trade with a smartphone, he's making price comparisons. I think this change is what a lot of retailers and marketeers are struggling with. Yes, the fact remains that, you know, online tends to be cheaper because they don't have the physical infrastructure that offline retailers do.

But I think a lot of the experiences of online, if you can gradually integrate and assimilate them into your offline environment, you can offer the consumer a holistic experience. I think that's the trick that some of the offline retailers miss when they, you know, kind of play up this bogey. For example, you know, a couple of things come to mind. Most of us typically, when we, let's say, go into our hair cutting saloons or, you know, places where we go to do ourselves up,

we have a favorite customer service agent, right? The guy who does, the regular guy. That's the kind of experience that online can't duplicate, right? Online can give you price, it can give you majesty, it can give you transparency, it can give you all the information. But I think things of that sort. The other part is really the fact that online also has a great peer review system, right? When you're looking up certain product, you know, which your friends bought it. In an offline environment, you possibly miss that.

Now, can those things be integrated into the offering? I think that's the aspect where getting technology seamlessly playing that, you know, the kind of intermingling role. And what we're seeing in this change, thanks to technology, is that people are actually there to take in the whole experience, right? When you go to a store, it's also part of, you know, you're pampering yourself or you're going there for more than just a purchase.

And I think getting that experience, right, built into the brand offering is something that brand marketers have to work towards. Wonderful. Lloyd, tell me, so in some ways, we're not studying people anymore. We're studying their cell phones. And your cell phone basically defines every piece of data that is about you because that's how you're consuming the world. Is data and is consumption data really becoming the point of truth that seamlessly integrates point A to point B in the customer's journey?

Or is that still, you know, just data lying somewhere unutilized? Most stores are very inanimate, right? You go and discover your way around. And I think using that technology, so if the store kind of recognizes my presence in, knows what I'm into, and if they can kind of code me and push me around the aisles that, you know, that I typically want to shop in, that would make it experience. Or if they could thwart me special offers, price offs, discounts that are relevant to me.

I think that's the aspect that the whole data that you have about a consumer cannot be brought alive in the store. I think that's something that's completely missing. And increasingly consumers are seeking personalization, right? Whether it's product, whether it's experience. So I think that part is where I don't think the data is being used adequately in the offline environment. And that is a big lacuna, something that retailers can look at and brand market deals. Sure. Superb. Lloyd, fantastic having you here.

My next guest is Sujata V Kumar, head of marketing for India and South Asia at Visa. Prior to Visa, she was leading marketing and strategy at Google. Welcome to the show, Sujata. It's a promiscuous new world order where loyalty doesn't seem to be, you know, part of the fabric of consumer thinking. What does your data tell you? What does your experience tell you? Is this promiscuousness of the customer here to stay? And is it what will define how brands build their businesses on the internet in the years to come?

I mean, I love the word promiscuous because that's exactly what the consumer or the customer has become today. In the past, we used to see customers used to be very loyal both to a brand as well as an outlet like Uma talked about Shopper Stop. We used to go to one place, we used to look at one brand and we shopped. This has completely changed today. And everything we want today, we want it quick, as quick as a snap of a finger. So as a customer, I want my shopping time reduced so I can be out in a jiffy.

India's retail sector has metamorphosed to exactly offer that over the years. And this changing demands of a shopper is becoming more of an agile experience. For instance, let's look at today's online e-commerce shopping experience. Today, it contributes to more than 2.2% of the entire shopping experience and is growing. Now with an easy return policy of e-commerce players, consumers can now return goods if the product doesn't meet their experience. One key element that binds and can enhance the entire shopping experience is payments.

Okay, that's where we come in, of course. While our country is characterized by a high propensity to use cash, we saw two years ago demonetization happen and completely change and accelerate the transition towards digital payments. Though we witnessed a wide uptake of digital payments, the RBI's annual report of last year actually threw up quite a contradictory fact. The value of digital transactions has increased in the last two years. The value of digital payments was increased in the last two years, but stickiness towards cash resurfaced.

Cash has stayed relevant due to the convenience of cash and the limited understanding of the digital form factors. Now being aided, of course, by consumer education initiatives. To better understand the promiscuous nature of Indians for cash, we need to understand what is the friction customers face while making payments. For offline experiences, no matter how much I enjoy shopping, if I see a huge queue, that discourages me from buying what I want to at a particular store, for example, shopper stop, even though I'm loyal to it.

And if I want to pay with my card, sometimes the network is not good and the transaction fails. I don't get an SMS in time, further prolonging the time taken to make the purchase. And leading to frustrated shoppers, frustrated merchants and a long queue. And then consumers then decide, let's just pay with cash. Therefore, in multiple studies, we actually found out that a direct correlation to electronification of payments has a result in sustainable growth. So you can't just rely on cash. You have to look forward.

Hence, we have aligned our long term objectives to enable India's transition to a less cash society and a faster and a frictionless way to pay. As we move into the future, shopping is going to get more and more digital, be it online or offline. And we know that with Gen Z coming in, being a digital friendly and a mobile native generation, everything is going to be mobile, whether it's paying, whether it's shopping or whether it's actually just making a payment.

Hence, in the midst of all this, we need to keep in mind the old adage, consumer is king, the customer is queen. I like to say customer is queen. And we have to create a shopping experience that's simple enough to earn their loyalty by being simple, fast, secure and earn their loyalty as well as keep it. Simple, fast, secure. I do have a question. Between electronic payments and credit card payments, how conscious are people, especially credit cards, what credit card or what technology or what bank they're going to use to transact online?

There are actually two points to it. So one, of course, when anyone is using an online transaction, they want to make sure it's secure. So they do look to which bank it's from, you know, the bank they bank with, the trust they have, of course, whether, you know, a brand like Visa has stood for trust over many, many years. So that is there. But once they become more familiar with it and they realize it's very secure, the offers also play a big place.

So you mentioned a very interesting point where you said that you found that 66% of consumers still wanted face to face shopping. And, you know, you're looking obviously for the card usage to go up. And what kind of data collaborations is Visa therefore making with retailers to leverage this insight? So, yes, we do work on, you know, with retailers, we use a lot of, even in our digital marketing, we do a lot of personalization targeting at the right consumer.

And we work with, you know, stores such as yours and others to make sure we're targeting the right people because people still instinctively like to come to the physical place and do that. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Lovely. Lovely. My next guest is Tanmay Saxena, Chief Operating Officer, 1MG. Previously, Global Business Head of Online Food Ordering at Zomato. It's great to have you here, Tanmay. Thanks for having me. Welcome to the show.

Tanmay, the internet has transformed a lot of categories and lots of industries of which healthcare is probably sitting on the edge. It's the last frontier. You know, you're trying to disrupt a category that is sitting in the middle of a plethora of unknowns. And you're trying to disrupt it with credibility and you're trying to get people to transact in the category, giving you their trust and reliability. Talk to us a little bit about that journey because it is challenging but very, very exciting, the work that you guys are doing.

What is your experience? Very important question because amongst all the industries, you know, healthcare is one such industry where there's no more precious currency than trust. For us, this journey has been actually pretty exciting and there's, you know, ample proof now that we've been doing very well. And I think it all started with the core idea that any healthcare journey has to be patient centric. And if you pause and think about it for a moment, you'll realize that this is one industry where patients usually don't get that level of importance.

Whether it's, you know, highly pressured service providers, hospitals or doctors or even availability of this large range of medicines. Or when you're talking about going to labs for getting your tests done, there's always a pressure on resources because the infrastructure has not been able to catch up with the requirements. And in that environment, what we started with was the idea that everybody has a right to decide their own healthcare journey. And it starts primarily with information.

This is one industry where there's a lot of information asymmetry and very simple things, right? Starting with, you know, medicines and their impact on you and talk to chronic patients who are basically doing this as part of their life condition, right? And this is, they are taking those medications, there is price sensitivity involved there, you know, like which brand they should trust, which brand's medication they should take, what are the side effects, interactions, should they take it with food before food and all of that, right?

Now, we started our journey with providing and making all of that information transparent, right? And pretty much the response of consumers or patients to that solution was overwhelming. Our entire app traffic, and this is an oft-quoted story we talk about, when we launched our app, over the weekend we got almost half a million downloads. Think about the gap that existed in terms of people wanting to know about this versus the information that was out there, right?

And to carry that journey four years forward, we are today the most trafficked healthcare site in the country by a far margin, right? And this is something, so in the share of healthcare apps category time, we have almost a 35% category time, right? That's complete, that lead is a reflection of people showing their trust in the information that they get there and the services that they get there on our app.

So at this point, I must ask you that all these eyeballs and the trust that people have shown in you by downloading that app, by spending time on money, does that reflect in shopper behavior? Does that reflect in transaction behavior? Because that really then would be the reflection of the category having or you having transcended the mistrust in the category on the internet? Right. So interestingly, it does. So in healthcare, I think there's also this problem of over information. So in healthcare, I think there's also this problem of over information.

And too much information available and self diagnosis and everybody is a doctor and there's WebMD and then you read the symptoms and you think you have it all. Everything leads to cancer. Everything leads to cancer. Lot of information. How do we ensure that the information we give is high quality and trustworthy? And I was talking about this earlier today is that there are two kinds of internet, like one is the aggregation part of internet, where folks are aggregating a lot of information and presenting it to you.

And then there's the other part of internet, which is more the conceptual internet where you're creating information and ensuring that that information is validated and high quality. We call ourselves also the Wikipedia of medicines because all the information that's created related to medicines in house is done by a panel of 40 plus doctors who review journals and find credible sources for that information with citations. And the idea is we just don't want to take any claim that's there in the internet and just aggregate it and present it to you.

Our goal is to first wet that information for its quality and then present it to you. Fantastic, Tanmay. Thank you so much. It was really wonderful. Thank you. I would like to welcome my next guest, Jitain Mahendra, Senior Vice President Marketing at Max Fashion India. Jitain has an in-depth knowledge of the retail industry. He's an astute observer of emerging trends under his aegis. Jitain, we love talking about the internet, the physical store, the app as if they existed in isolation. And I was talking to Lloyd also about this earlier.

The truth is that the customer may be in all three on the same day. How do you then create a seamless shopping experience which remains consistent through these channels? Or do you create a seamless shopping experience that's consistent through these channels? What are customer expectations? Tell us, talk to us about it from your experience. You know, I'll start this whole thing with decoding this word Omni channel. Because you know, it's not a brand initiative or an organization initiative. Actually, it happened through the customer.

What we are realizing is that this Omni channel is actually the same customer. So, we might say that he's not my core customer and he's my secondary TG which started on a digital space. And my primary TG is on a brick and mortar space. But the fact of the matter is that somewhere or the other he has touched your brand. And if you see most of the brands which are doing good in the digital space, the pure digital space. They are either established brands or they are price point entry brands.

So, it's not like new brands are getting tried on the digital space, especially in the fashion space. And you know, Max is a private label. So, 95% of our clothes are manufactured, designed by us. So, we are not dependent on any other brands. So, we control the price. And we took a hard call saying that we will not participate in the marketplace to dilute the price point. Because our average selling price is 549. And how do you give a discount on a 549 price point? So, we realized that we will start our own journey. We started our own e-commerce journey.

It is slow, but it helped us to understand the larger pattern we learned out of it. And it helped us to build a unification. So, just to give you the three key things when you look at the omnichannel journey. One is the whole single view inventory, the stock piece what we are talking about. What we realized is that the BNM has more strict norms on stocks vis a vis a digital space. So, in our case we do five season launches. And you know, in fashion what happens is that the product changes every 45 days.

So, unlike other categories where the product can be there for 12 months, you have to change 45 days. Otherwise, you are not relevant to the customer. Online, that's not the case. You can keep on changing the new season arrival based on the consumption pattern and so and so on. Second thing what we realized is that the biggest weakest link between the omnichannel journey is your actually CRE. So, your customer is evolved. He is on the social media for 17 hours. He is having a smartphone and your guy at the store is the lowest paid guy.

And he is interacting with your ultimate customer. And that's where we started actually pushing in a lot of training and technology. So, what happens in fashion, there is a huge level of you know diction, terminology is being used. And that guy has no clue. For him it is jeans. And the customer is saying that you have launched a Gen.me collection. And he is saying I don't know about it. So, we actually try to work on it and we are working on it. The third piece is the loyalty.

And loyalty in the offline space is about a customer coming and buying from you. Whereas loyalty in the online space is your app usage. We have initiated a lot of projects on the loyalty space. So, what we are seeing now is that we have something called as connected marketing platform. We are actually giving offers to our offline customers which are online offers. And we are making the online customers come to our store. So, we initiated click and collect that you can click online, collect at the store.

We are talking about a GV being given at online can be redeemed at the offline store. So, there is a lot of cross pollination we are trying to do so that the customers feel the brand in the large space. And the ultimate thing for any fashion brand is the store. Because that's where the maximum product is at display. That's where the experience comes in the place. You are the best in that piece. So, how to get that customer to the store? Maybe not every time.

Maybe that customer instead of coming every time to your physical store might twice go to online and come once to your store. But that relation if it is built, that's more long. The full experience. That is the full experience. And then you can have a conversation which is unique to the brand. Otherwise, you will get into the discount. Very interesting. So, there is a brand. The brand has created expectations and there are mediums to sell. But there aren't three brands and there are three different sets of expectations being met. Any questions?

From my experience when I was heading marketing at Lenscard, I think one of the reasons that the offline stores, that model has taken off so much may have something to do with the fact that there is a sane amount of models available. It helps you make a choice more easily than the thousands and thousands and overwhelming number of pieces that's available. Do you see that and how do you use it? And frankly, fashion is about limited choice. It's not the way actually. So, you know, I'll decode the fashion and this part.

So, I'll tell you the good part is that our core TG is women. And if I have to make it in a one liner, women thrives fashion. Because male is more, we call it as a hunter. You know, he comes with a specific usage, buys a specific label and goes off. What we are realizing is that thanks to the digital, there's a huge amount of ropo which is happening, which is research online and purchase offline. You have to influence a lot on the content and the blog. The customer is very much reading there. You have to facilitate it.

So, research online and purchase offline even in evolved markets like US, you know, your pure business like brands like Macy's and all is not more than 12%. So, pure online is always going to be between 8 to 12% or 13%. Your offline is actually going to be aided with your digital presence. So, we are seeing almost 50% of our business coming because of the research online and purchase offline. Thank you so much, Jitin. It was wonderful. Thank you. My next guest is Shirish Joshi, founder CEO, Prism Consulting.

Shirish has been in charge of brands ranging from a few million dollars to several billion dollars. Some of these include Procter & Gamble brands, PepsiCo, Airtel and Godrej. From my own experience, I feel that customers have always put a premium on integrated shopping experiences and this is particularly true in more involved categories. In categories that require planning and putting together things. You've dealt with some of these challenges.

Is it easier now with technology or have sellers become more sophisticated across the board or is it just a perception that shopping experiences have become more integrated? Yes, it has become more integrated and I think both customers and brands are working hard to make it better over time. Many factors are driving it. People have more income to spend on. They are much more aware. There are certain sensibilities that have got trained over time. So, designfulness is one of them.

And all of that comes together in people thinking about not a specific item or a specific product but a broader one. So, I'll give you examples of how conversations have changed. Working with the furniture business. Earlier a customer would come and say, I want a new bed. Now they will come and say, I want to redecorate my bedroom. So, it's not about a single product. They are thinking about multiple things and it's not just about grand items. I go shopping with my 20 year old son. I see a shirt that I think he'll like.

I say, hey, why don't you get this? He says, no, I can't. I don't have anything to go with it. I say, what do you mean? He says, well, that requires a whiter and off-white slim fit trousers I don't have. So, he's also not thinking of it individually. So, because of the way our exposure and our income and our sensibilities are getting trained, people are thinking in much more integrated fashions, not item wise. Because of that, brands have to involve and think integrated.

And in a lot of ways, because it's a journey from the time you first think of engaging into any sort of purchase till you actually completed, how does that journey become memorable? And how does it become effective? Because people have to become aware of options, people have to weigh options, people have to trust information and eventually reach a decision. If that experience is not good, then it will not get repeated. So, brands are now looking at both ends. How do we integrate things and how do we make the experience better?

And that's going to be the evolving story going forward. So, on the internet, a lot of it could actually be about data that's collected over a period of time. I know some online shopping places will tell me, people who bought this also bought this. Do you see that data, that almost machine mechanization or machine learning actually percolate the offline space as well? Do you see that happening? Do you see that change happening? So, I see two different kinds of clubbing together and I think we should not mix the two.

So, if I am buying a phone and an e-commerce portal also offers phone covers and also offers an earphone to go with it, that to me is a much more integrated one. Now, if I happen to be buying clothes hangers and the person thinks that I might also need a small air cooler because people of my profile also, they are not integrated. They are matching me as a buyer. So, I think we should distinguish between a shopping profile where there is a larger basket where different things could be connected and integration. Any questions? Yeah.

So, Shereesh on integrated experiences. So, we see this a lot online where if you buy something on, for example, Amazon, immediately they will say shoppers who bought this also frequently buy this, this and this. So, and it actually ends up incurring more purchase. How do we do the same in offline? Because I am not seeing that happen. So, how does integrated experiences become more of a thing in offline shopping? I think you have to take some of that same intelligence.

So, one food retail brand that I worked with, what we were doing was actually mimicking something of what Amazon does. So, when you are dealing with customers who have a passion for cooking, who are going out there to create something new, then you know what things are likely to go together. Sometimes things are organized by food category type, not by cuisine type. And therefore, you can find connections between, you can literally put labels on the desk that those who consider this also consider that.

You can also code display them as themes over a period of time. So, I think offline can also find very easy and practical solutions to bring it together that are coming out from an understanding. So, I think the first step is do you understand your customers? You shelf it right, you bring linkages, you connect them, you provide expertise and that's the experience that you create. That enables that customer journey to be painless and successful. Thank you. Thank you, Shidi.

On that note, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining us on episode number 15 of Brand Studio Live. Co-hosted by HD Brand Studio and DMA Asia. A special thanks to DMA Asia and Vatsal Ashar for helping power this wonderful event. A big round of applause for the Brand Masters who took the time out to be with us and share their insights and experiences in the newsroom today. A big thank you to our radio partner, Fever FM, who helps evangelize the concept. In our next episode, you are actually going to see us in a new avatar.

And that's because as we are heading into season 2 of Brand Studio Live, we are also trying to redo everything that we have and make it bigger and bolder. So, stay tuned. We promise you it's going to be as exciting, maybe more. Keep watching. Thank you so much. Thank you so much.